tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5908830827135060852.post7160383393994723334..comments2024-03-01T02:40:14.946-05:00Comments on Bond Economics: Should We Care About The History Of Money?Brian Romanchukhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02699198289421951151noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5908830827135060852.post-39424802254949923112016-05-19T17:21:37.481-04:002016-05-19T17:21:37.481-04:00Here you need to read John Henry's paper on th...Here you need to read John Henry's paper on the origins of money in Egypt. Hydro engineers who traveled all around the country progressively lost ties with tribal members and started to think of way to gain control over the production and distribution of output. <br />Religion takes over magic progressively as hydro engineers promote irrational thinking to benefit themselves (basically, if you do not give me what I want the gods won't provide water).<br />So the state did not emerge spontaneously and to benefit others. It emerges to control output via deceit (religion) and force for the benefit of a few. Money and accounting emerged to track dues and their fulfillment Eric Tymoignenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5908830827135060852.post-69629376918486265382016-05-19T17:18:27.281-04:002016-05-19T17:18:27.281-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01658109558806466102noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5908830827135060852.post-54452515180330194642016-05-19T10:44:57.461-04:002016-05-19T10:44:57.461-04:00As an aside, I gave a longer answer to your and To...As an aside, I gave a longer answer to your and Tom Hickey's comments in a new article. I really did not think about the barter issue when writing the article; I was focussed on the questions raised by Shaikh.<br /><br />As for the assumption about free-floating currencies, it's a real pain. I have just finished off my next report, and discussed the assumption in Chapter 1, and wrote that it applies to everything in the report. The problem is when people quote you without providing that context; you then end up having to backtrack what you originally wrote, adding in the qualifications that are skipped in the text that they quoted.Brian Romanchukhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02699198289421951151noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5908830827135060852.post-16356071170454909522016-05-19T10:20:54.918-04:002016-05-19T10:20:54.918-04:00Does this invalidate the theory of MMT about the p...Does this invalidate the theory of MMT about the present state of the Canadian dollar? I guess not. As long as you preface every discussion with "this all applies only in the situation where the government is the monopoly issuer of the freely floating fiat currency and where that government has the ability to tax effectively and accepts payment of that tax in its own currency. Actually, that is what most of the MMT scholars do seem to say almost each and every time. I imagine it must get very tiring to do so :) Jerry Brownnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5908830827135060852.post-84018001908780209542016-05-19T06:52:27.837-04:002016-05-19T06:52:27.837-04:00I would agree that there was a lot of shoddy histo...I would agree that there was a lot of shoddy history in old classical textbooks, but I have not seen stories of barter in the modern neoclassical literature. No equations.<br /><br />But even if the ancients engaged in barter, would it affect whether or not the economy today is a barter economy?<br /><br />Furthermore, it is not just barter, there is the debate about the origin of money -public or private? If you look at Canada, we had free banking and privately issued tokens as money (I wrote about the tokens earlier). I am not an expert on the free banking part, but the system was only lightly regulated. (To what extent there was a central bank, it was the Bank of England, and the English did not care too much about what happened to some colonists in the frozen tundra.) One could easily argue that the Canadian dollar's origins were private, and the state money came later. Does this invalidate the theory of MMT about the present state of the Canadian dollar?Brian Romanchukhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02699198289421951151noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5908830827135060852.post-48181571810498267912016-05-19T06:42:37.701-04:002016-05-19T06:42:37.701-04:00I would say yes, although MMT does not go to far i...I would say yes, although MMT does not go to far into the justification of government policy; the assumption is that the reader can come up with reasons why we need a government.<br /><br />But they do argue that money is very useful for raising taxes. The historical alternative was payment-in-kind, but that is an unworkable system once economic activity is specialised. People producing things that are not useful for a war would avoid supporting a war, which is obviously unfair.Brian Romanchukhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02699198289421951151noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5908830827135060852.post-1860590985782952362016-05-19T00:32:33.877-04:002016-05-19T00:32:33.877-04:00 We should care about the origins of money. I thi... We should care about the origins of money. I think that the reason Wray emphasizes the history of money is to show that the classic econ story of money evolving as a way to facilitate barter exchange in previously (supposedly) exclusively barter exchange economies is the wrong way to look at the function of money. Especially in our monetary economies today. That false (in my opinion) barter exchange history is still being used today as a foundation to support a lot of very shaky neoclassical economics. Jerry Brownnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5908830827135060852.post-78133140657684712582016-05-18T21:04:56.863-04:002016-05-18T21:04:56.863-04:00Being not familiar with the MMT literature I am gu...Being not familiar with the MMT literature I am guessing the logic goes like this:<br /><br />The state arises to fulfil the needs of its citizens, this requires the ability to finance these needs, taxation being the means.<br /><br />The taxation powers of the state are justified by the social obligations of the citizens of the state.<br /><br />In return the state guarantees the employability of citizens (i.e. the Job Guarantee).<br /><br />Money arises as a means by which tax is efficiently raised and then redistributed as required.<br /><br />Does this make any sense? Is it the logic behind MMT?<br /><br /><br />Henry<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5908830827135060852.post-91904964162307172262016-05-18T10:51:31.160-04:002016-05-18T10:51:31.160-04:00" he states that MMT authors "extol the ..." he states that MMT authors "extol the powers of the state," and that the theories are based on a government that "spontaneously arises, and in the interest of benefitting the population, imposes a monetary tax on them...""<br /><br />Haha. <br /><br />Brutal!Ramananhttp://www.concertedaction.comnoreply@blogger.com